Curse

soopur · Oct 22, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

hi. new poster here. the warrior was the first class that i've played. i enjoy the warrior class very much as it allows me to survive much better. but when i think of a warrior, not only do i think high damage absorbtion but also high health. currently, the warrior has the exact same health as any other class does. no warrior armor even adds health. from item alone, the most health a character can have is 480+30 from weapon+45 from focus/shield +50 from rune = 605. but usually people will tack on a sup rune, reducing health to 530

anyhow, the point is, any character is able to achieve that amount of hp. i know that the warrior does have two skills that allow temporary hp bonuses, but thats the problem, its temporary. its too short in most cases to be of much use.

so my suggestion is to have the warrior be able to independently raise his own health and that no other class can do it. two ideas come to my mind: warrior armor or warrior attribute. armor is hard because of balancing issues, but i have a suggestion for attribute.

instead of giving strength armor penetration, strength will give health instead, and tactics will then give armor penetration. so then each tactics point would give 1% armor penetration. as for strength, the exact amount of health one point gives can be determined. lets say at 15 strength we want it to give an extra 150 health, then easily we can say one point gives 10 health.

giving warriors more health would allow them to tank more effectively and set them even more apart from the other characters. any thoughts?

Medion · Oct 22, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Warriors already have the advantage of having the highest base armor of the game. Making them good tankers.

And if u need extra health for tanking, I don`t think u are a good tank. A tanker should be able to take lots of dmg without nearly dying, that is what a tank is for. You should also not forget, that having a superior rune+ a shield of item that adds 45 health, is rare and most ppl will never get one of the 2 i guess.

Adding the armor penetration to the tactics is a BAD idea.

If this would be implemented, I would put the extra health at the tactics.

But again, I think giving a warrior more health then another character is bad.

You should not forget, that warriors already have the exclusive absorption runes.

Rey Lentless · Oct 22, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

If you want high life, run endure pain and defy pain.

derrtyboy69 · Oct 22, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Giving youself more health, but less armor is just stupid. All it means is that your monks spend more energy keeping you alive. For PvE Warriors are great tanks, for PvP warrior tanks just suck. In PvP warriors should be offensive. If tactics had Extra armor penetration, most warrior would become less useful then ranger/warriors, which would suck.

Jenosavel · Oct 22, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Higher armor is always better than higher health when it comes to defenses in this game. The warrior's incredibly higher armor than other classes makes any extra HP it might get somewhat of a moot point. I mean, how many warriors use Superior runes for their weapon attribute? A lot. The health hit really doesn't hurt much, especially when compared to the damage output.

Also, trading armor penetration on your attacks for extra HP? ...ouch. That'd hurt warriors a heck of a lot.

Since it seems like you might be somewhat new to Guild Wars and not just these forums (only played warrior so far?), let me introduce you to the game mechanics so you can start to see why armor and armor penetration should be more of a worry to you that extra hp.

I'll take armor penetration to begin with. A normal strength value for a warrior to run with is 10. That means 10% armor penetration. Let's plug that into the equation for skill damage done with a skill doing +34 base damage (Executioner's Strike) while going after a target with 60AL (final caster armor) when you're level 20. The equation is this:
base_damage * 2 ^ ((3 * character_level - armor_level)) / 40)

So, before armor penetration, we have:
34 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 60) / 40) = +34 damage
After strength's armor penetration we have:
34 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 54) / 40) ~= +37.73 damage

Now, let's consider armor when you're on the receiving end of the Executioner's Strike before armor penetration:

Typical warrior's armor:
34 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 80) / 40) ~= +24.04 damage
Typical caster's armor:
34 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 60) / 40 = +34 damage

As you should be starting to see here, armor values are incredibly important. Over the course of a battle, especially PvE battles, the warrior's higher armor can easily save him hundreds of hp. Not only does this serve the purpose of making him live longer but it also puts less pressure on the healer. It would be better to take half damage and have half hp than to have double hp and take double damage, because in one scenario the monks will be able to keep up with healing you.

Are you starting to see the benefits of armor over hp?

I'll throw in one more scenario just to be sure. Against a warrior, let's compare the damage of Lightning Orb and Phoenix's long-range half. Phoenix's base damage is higher than Lightning Orb's, at 91 vs 82, but Lightning Orb has armor penetration. It turns out to be quite a pronounced difference.

Phoenix's projectile hit:
91 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 80) / 40) = 64.35 damage
Lightning Orb:
82 * 2 ^ ((3 * 20 - 60) / 40) = 82 damage

Medion · Oct 22, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

That is what I meant

Could u maybe explain where u got the armor difference from?

cause 10% of 80 doesnt make 60 I believe.

Thx in advance

soopur · Oct 23, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Jenosavel: ive been playing guild wars since release and played every character and i know the mechanics. i am a math person, i always find out formulas for every game that i play, so i know what armor penetration does. but thanks for your generous explaination anyhow.

but i think you guys are misunderstanding me. i didnt say replace armor with health, i said add more health. and if u guys misunderstood me then im sorry.

LifeInfusion · Oct 23, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

vital blessing is a good choice for w/mo.

Defy/endure = temporary

Demonic flesh (necro) = about 50 seconds of extra hp

entropy · Oct 24, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Umm no cause then We'd all be pwned by W/Mo's in arena with 1000+ health and fricking 100+ armor. HELL NO

Nighteye · Oct 24, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

If you think you're dying too quickly, go W/E and use Earth Armor to further increase your armor rating.

MSecorsky · Oct 24, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopur

hi. new poster here. the warrior was the first class that i've played. i enjoy the warrior class very much as it allows me to survive much better. but when i think of a warrior, not only do i think high damage absorbtion but also high health. currently, the warrior has the exact same health as any other class does. no warrior armor even adds health. from item alone, the most health a character can have is 480+30 from weapon+45 from focus/shield +50 from rune = 605. but usually people will tack on a sup rune, reducing health to 530

anyhow, the point is, any character is able to achieve that amount of hp. i know that the warrior does have two skills that allow temporary hp bonuses, but thats the problem, its temporary. its too short in most cases to be of much use.

so my suggestion is to have the warrior be able to independently raise his own health and that no other class can do it. two ideas come to my mind: warrior armor or warrior attribute. armor is hard because of balancing issues, but i have a suggestion for attribute.

instead of giving strength armor penetration, strength will give health instead, and tactics will then give armor penetration. so then each tactics point would give 1% armor penetration. as for strength, the exact amount of health one point gives can be determined. lets say at 15 strength we want it to give an extra 150 health, then easily we can say one point gives 10 health.

giving warriors more health would allow them to tank more effectively and set them even more apart from the other characters. any thoughts?

If your warrior is dying too quickly...

my ranger is doing his job.

Lampshade · Oct 25, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

LOL great post ^^

NightOwl · Oct 25, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

If tactics gave armor penetration and str. gave health...str would get leftover points and a minor rune ONLY, for me. Let's face it, you're proposing that tactics get all the benefits of str. AND tactics currently, and adding a new benefit for strength. Overpowered just a little, ya think?